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Author Topic:   drive end vs non-drive end (again)
electricpete
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posted 06-22-2004 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for electricpete   Click Here to Email electricpete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know this has been rehashed many times before, but...

If I say "drive-end" bearing of a motor, which bearing would you interpret this as... shaft-end or non-shaft end?

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Ron Ensing
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posted 06-22-2004 08:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ron Ensing   Click Here to Email Ron Ensing     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Drive end would be the end that is connected to the driven device, therefore the shaft end of the motor. NDE is the rotor support bearing away from the pulley or coupling. That's the way I do it.

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Jon Chandler
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posted 06-22-2004 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jon Chandler   Click Here to Email Jon Chandler     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I never manage to keep the various naming conventions straight. Just when I think it might make sense, sombody throws out "motor back end".

Two conventions I like are free-end and coupled-end. This is pretty clear, at least until you come across a motor driving a load on each end. The other convention I like is numbering the bearings in the direction of power flow. Motor free-end is position 1, motor coupled-end is 2, pump coupled-end is 3 and pump free-end is 4. If you have some idea of the mechanical arrangement this is usually understandable.

Jon
Spintelligent Labs

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Duncan Carter
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posted 06-22-2004 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Duncan Carter   Click Here to Email Duncan Carter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a customer whos uses Blind End instead of NDE. I think this nameing convention came from Joy, at least for their installation which is a railroad tunnel ventilation system.

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ACrooks
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posted 06-22-2004 10:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ACrooks   Click Here to Email ACrooks     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let's throw this one out. Which is the drive end on a hollow shaft vertical motor. I consider the top the drive end since that is where it is coupled. It's probably just easier to call that the top bearing (01) and Bottom bearing (02).

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electricpete
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posted 06-22-2004 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for electricpete   Click Here to Email electricpete     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I forgot about back-end/front end.
Back end would be inboard/DE and front would be outboard/NDE.

From comments above it appears DE/NDE is uniformly defined as stated by Ron (except hollow shaft and double-eneded motors... don't want to go there).

Is there anyone that would take the opposite approach and call the outboard/free end a "drive end" ?

[This message has been edited by electricpete (edited 06-22-2004).]

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GSH
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posted 06-22-2004 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GSH   Click Here to Email GSH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What do you call it when you a have shaft coming out of both ends?

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thomas_purackal
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posted 06-22-2004 09:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for thomas_purackal   Click Here to Email thomas_purackal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What do you call it when you a have shaft coming out of both ends?For machines trains like steam turbine and gas turbine driven centrifugal compressors(example 4 barrels of centrifugal compressors and one drive steam turbine at one end)we use the following.Thrust bearing side and thrust bearing opposite side.By using this reference it is possible to identify the the two ends of the machine without mistake.The maintenance/vibration monitoring guy should be knowing where is the thrust bearing or of machine trains like the above.

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GSH
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posted 06-22-2004 10:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GSH   Click Here to Email GSH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We called it North, South, East, or West depending on the machine trains orientation, especially when you have 2 motors, 1 axial flow and 2 centrifugal flow compressors and 1 or two gear units in one train.

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mcdm
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posted 06-23-2004 02:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mcdm   Click Here to Email mcdm     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is how I describe my points
Most customers accept this; some prefer to use the number system http://reliability-magazine.com/pub/DESCRIPTION.doc

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Don
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posted 06-23-2004 07:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Don   Click Here to Email Don     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GSH

I also use north, south, east, or west when it comes to a motor driving something from each end. I use this too on vertical applications for the radial directions.

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Steven Schultheis
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posted 06-23-2004 07:48 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Steven Schultheis   Click Here to Email Steven Schultheis     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GSH and others, if you use North, South, East, and West, that is fine, just make sure there is a clear indication of which way is north, either on the machine, or on a machine drawing. I don't know how many times I have visited a plant got turned around, and had no idea which way was north. Especially on a rainy day when you can't see the sun, or in the middle of the night when most emergency work is going on...

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GSH
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posted 06-23-2004 11:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GSH   Click Here to Email GSH     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It boils down to it does not matter what you call it as long as you have some orientation point to go by. Be it relative or absolute as long as you are consistant. Nothing worse than being on the wrong location and making a call. Of course all us old timers know that. I have seen some so cryptic that you needed a translator. I try to operate on the KISS principle.

Have a good day

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Duncan Carter
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posted 06-23-2004 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Duncan Carter   Click Here to Email Duncan Carter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The same client that I mentioned earlier instituted an alpha-numeric labeling scheme for their machines after dealing with confusing labeling schemes from different vendors and consultants. In this case, all motors had single output shafts. Each machine train had a single letter identifier; they didn't have enough machine trains to need. Starting, the motor NDE/(Motor Outboard End)/(Blind End)/(East End - all drive motors were on the East End of the trains), a location number of 10 was appended to the train identifier and a location number of 20 was appended to the train letter identifier. The next machine, an Eaton Dynamitic clutch, had four bearings and these were given numerical indicators of 30 (inout bearing), 40(support bearing),50 (pilot bearing), and 60(output bearing). Finally, the fan bearings were given numbers of 70 and 80. Additional measurement points along he length of the train could be identified by interpolation. Measurement directions in any plane were identified by L for left, viewed from the Blind End of the motor, T for top, B for bottom, A for Axial, etc. If as sequence of measurements were used, numbers beginning with 00, 01, etc were also appended. After establishing this system, copies of the scheme were sent to all vendors with they statement that this scheme was required if they wanted payment, which was effective. All permanent sensor cables were also labled this way. This scheme also allowed individual data files to be labeled in an 8x3 filename scheme - this was established in the DOS days.

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cussinggus
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posted 06-24-2004 01:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cussinggus   Click Here to Email cussinggus     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If the shaft of the motor is putting out work/motion to drive something, logic would seem to dictate this an "output", therefore makes sense to refer to it as outboard. Would you consider the bearing nearest the sheave on a overhung fan to be the outboard based on its relative position to the fan or, based on this being the input force to drive the fan, an inboard measure point?

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Dave McCallister
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posted 06-24-2004 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dave McCallister   Click Here to Email Dave McCallister     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
the drive side of anything has always been considered by me and the folks I do work for as the inboard side. the opposite drive end is the outboard end. I had an underground mines that wanted them called drive side and opposite drive side. Never heard of any of the others.

Dave

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